Episode 7: With John G (Attention and Focus, Curiosity and Empathy, Fatherhood and Big Questions)
Welcome to Episode 7 of Jonah Asks. Today, I talk to John Gordon. He’s a friend from college who I’ve rarely seen over the last twenty years. He grew up in the woods in North Carolina. He now lives in Beijing, China, where he’s resided since 2003. Strangely enough, we didn’t talk much about China during this conversation.
John is a thoughtful and curious person, great at engaging. It’s a testament to John‘s unique conversational style and ability to convey the process of rolling things over in his mind while speaking. He is a born improviser, and practiced the art of improv comedy in college. The conversation went all over the proverbial map.
The talk focused on: attention and distraction; psychology and identity; fandom; the power of silence; technology in our lives; consuming politics; fatherhood; awareness and social justice.
To follow John on Twitter: John Gordon
To listen (while reading or instead of reading):
Opening
John hasn’t shaved in a while, so he might itch. Jonah gives advice: pretend arms are strapped down to chair. John has no chair, he’s on a bed. He might need to switch pillows. Jonah offers to send John a pillow via FedEx.
Jonah went to the post office to send his students their early school memories booklet. It’s difficult to anything out of routine. Jonah used to be a bit of a hypochondriac.
0:05:15
Time stood still at the post office.
John: “Is it harder to do anything because we’re older? Are we getting objectively worse at doing things? Are we just too used to routines and can’t deal with things out of routine?”
Jonah does nine things. The tenth thing is strange.
There’s no ventilation in the post office. Frozen time. A woman with a lot of boxes. A guy waiting for answers. A man out of sight dealing with the questions.
Life’s a bizarre experiment. Now its just a concentratedly strange experiment.
0:10:00
When he turned 40, John’s friend interviewed one person from each age.
Jonah brings up the Seven Up! documentary series.
A group of seven-year-old British children from widely ranging backgrounds are interviewed about a range of subjects. Director Michael Apted plans to re-interview them at seven-year intervals to determine how their lives and attitudes have changed.
0:13:15
John’s childhood. 1980, North Carolina. John remembers standing at the top of stairs. The house was built around an old caboose. John’s mom was a teacher. She sort of acquired the caboose and then they later built the house around it. They lived in the woods, Durham. John is the oldest of three. Grew up playing in the woods.
0:20:00
Identity and fandom in childhood. John’s father worked at Duke Hospital. John grew up with the intensity of the Duke vs North Carolina rivalry. John’s grandfather taught at NC State. John appreciated the way the fans could develop a relationship with each player over the span of a four-year college basketball career.
Four year ago, Jonah reviewed Jonathan Abrams’ book Boys Among Men: How the Prep-to-Pro Generation Redefined the NBA and Sparked a Basketball Revolution.
Jonah’s review at Propeller Magazine:
Penguin’s website for ordering Abrams’ book:
0:25:00
Where do we devote our mental energy and attention online?
Politics and political identities. John — thinking about the U.S. election — considers what the mental energy we devote to Trump — does to us.
Balancing our attention with news. How to handle/limit the way you take in news.
Has our attention basically been defeated during this pandemic time?
0:31:00
Staying Present — especially with your children — technology
John had to replace his phone and recognized how much of his focus it takes up. Discussion of time without screens and limiting screens.
0:36:30
Work and Family time: Attention and Distraction
Parallel play with children; China’s pandemic shorter, but John has been working from home for most of this year; John appreciates the way that time has served as a reminder for how valuable that time is. John is concerned with his focus drifting away from family toward work or vice versa. Distraction is an issue for John.
Like many, John wants to keep to his focus and avoid online distractions: one possibility: John gives himself 10 minutes for every hour of work focus time.
0:41:30
College Lectures and Staying Awake
Having to deal with bills and financial stressors on the computer; the wonder of direct deposit and auto-bill-payments.
John brings up distraction and procrastination. Freshman year at college, John had trouble staying awake in class…three different classes to be specific. John was diagnosed with ADD and given medication. He stopped taking it later because he didn’t want to depend on it.
0:48:00
Jonah talks about how hard it was to stay awake in Anthony Braxton’s class “The Music of Coltrane, Mingus and Coleman.” Despite enjoying the music and the concept, Braxton’s abstract lectures were not easy to focus on for long stretches. Watch a few minutes of the interview below and you’ll get the idea.
John reflects on taking medication and wondering about if he’d kept taking it and how that might have changed him.
0:52:30
John asks Jonah about leaving Wesleyan. John lived abroad — in China — during his junior year. Jonah left Wesleyan for a year and then returned for a semester before leaving for good. Jonah and Natasha lived in Berkeley for the summer of 2000. Very close to an incredible music store: Amoeba.
Jonah was devastated when Natasha couldn’t return to Wesleyan in January 2001, after they’d both been away from school for a year. The plan was ruined. Jonah returned to Wesleyan but couldn’t get his footing, couldn’t separate what he had to do with where he was emotionally.
If Jonah had stayed at Wesleyan and graduated and then gone to journalism school, he would have gone far deeper into debt.
0:58:30
Learning from the past; overcoming obstacles. “This too shall pass.”
1:01:00
Keeping Perspective
Keeping your perspective during difficult times and learning from it; The bubble bursts for everyone at some point…it’s just a matter of when.
Even the most ambitious, career-driven people have to balance the other parts of themselves with their career, ego-driven self. Finding a balance between the multiple selves and being human.
1:05
Teaching; giving students agency; John’s work with developing a language learning product for Chinese people learning English.
1:08
John’s experience in middle and high school; Quaker school in North Carolina. Started in the ’70s. Hippie, anti-war. Very small school. The power of silence. Settling in. Settling out. John tried to levitate during silent meeting. Jonah used a short silent period with students when teaching high school. John’s school was project-based learning/service.
1:13
Thinking of Moving Back to the U.S. and Parenting
John and his wife are thinking about schools for their boys, who are age 5 and 1 1/2. The pandemic and the political situation have kept them from making the move yet.
Alex, who is 18 months, makes a cameo.
1:17
Having Two Children vs One Child
John admits its overwhelming to have two, but also loves seeing them interact and learn from each other.
John is the oldest of his siblings and his wife is the youngest and it has attuned them to noticing different things in their children.
Each person’s view of their parents is contextual and singular because your parents were different people at different stages and either did or didn’t have other children around.
Life after becoming a parent: Finding a Balance
The center changes; no more going out to dinner or playing basketball with friends. Making the choice to organize a life around your kids and balancing life.
John wants to make sure he’s aware of his choices and re-evaluating those decisions around work and family.
1:30
Practices around Reflecting; Thinking of the Bigger Picture
John has practiced journaling at night; morning pages — writing stream of consciousness early in the day; recently John blocks out 30 minutes to step back;
Jonah started writing poetry again after Rebelle Harmony was born. It became a way to reflect and make sense of the days as well as navigate the future.
1:35
Vulnerability: People Are Hurting and What Do We Do With That?
John thinks about how its almost easier to focus on pain and suffering now than usual, because it’s a collective experience.
Vulnerability: most men are taught not to express it or accept it. What if expressing vulnerability is a way to be healthy?
Jonah watched Marriage Story, a film by Noah Baumbach about divorce.
1:50
Empathy and Hard Questions
How we do connect to the actual feeling of worldwide devastation and pandemic?
How do we take in the idea that 260,000 people in the United States have died from this virus?
Making your way through the quarantine:
- get sunshine
- exercise
- get your work done
George Floyd and the Collective Protest During the Pandemic — Everyone Seeing Oppression Viscerally
What woke people up to acknowledging the oppression? How did the fact so many are at home and on screens provide the context for protest?
Racism and awareness: the issue with problems that are not fully solvable and people working tirelessly on them.
The power of protest. The NBA, protest, and social justice awareness.
Cory Booker’s Baby Bonds initiative.
How are you raising your children — and how much empathy will they have and how will they use their power for positive change and equality?